this may be a silly question but it has been a topic many times from plumbers i know and people who are interested in getting into the trade.with the introduction of plastic pipe being used for waste and vent and pex tubing being used more and more for domestic water lines and also for heating as well,is plumbing becomming a second rate trade where its so easy anyone can do it now a days? it seems all as you need is a hack saw and a ruler and your all set?[although you do need a plumbing licence] many parts of the country everything is pvc and pex tubing which seems to be holding up just fine but it seems to be killing the field in the way of taking the skill out of it.does anyone think that because of this that plumbers will be make less money because the easier it is the less your worth? poeple who want to get into the field have asked me whats better to learn plumbing or the heating side of it, like working for a heating contractor, which of the two are better field and which pays more and what field is more in demand? i myself have gotten more and more into the heating side of it.a lot of guys can install boilers but are kind of ify when it comes to the oil burner or control wiring part of it. speaking as a plumber i just think its the better of the two.im intersted to hear any input on this subject.

Anybody can do a crappy, leak filled job. it takes skill and pride to do a good, safe job. There is a reason why plumbers are licensed, we protect the health of the nation. If anything, plumbing is getting more complex, it's that the material is getting easier to work with. Just by the questions posted here, you can see that plumbing is not getting easier. Just because anybody with a hacksaw can cut and glue pvc or cpvc, if they don't know the codes or underlying principles, they are just playing connect the dots.

mr.jones (NY) wrote:

"second rate trade"
"less your worth?"
"anyone can do it now a days?"
"all as you need is a hack saw and a ruler"
"killing the field in the way of taking the skill out of it"

Second rate to what?
Compared to who?
Some people assume this.
I have a few extra tools then.

...Not to take one thing away from the trade that I love, but I think plumbing used to be more of a "craft" back in the days with lead wiping, caulking joints, etc., (not that I was around then). It also used to more time consuming.
We all know it takes a lot more than working with PVC and sweat joints to make a quality plumber, it takes experience, know-how and drive.

*westchester plumber*

Easy? Codes changing every three years,new products coming out every month,people not paying their bills,huge houses with 6-8 bathrooms with fancy foreign fixtures that you have never seen before,builders always on you about cutting corners,cutthroat bidding,poor quality materials,steel beams and wood headers you can't drill thru, it can go on and on,Yup plastic has made it easier but to do it per code and in a neat and professional manner and have everything work and look good ....that is an aquired skill....there's no subsitute for a licensed plumber

It appears that way does it? But appearances can be deceiving when it comes to any professional trade.
Consumers are performing more self-medication on themselves than they did before, spending millions of dollars on over-the-counter products. But when that doesn't work, they end up going to a doctor for a script.
The big-box stores have convienced the consumer that they can do almost anything, and consumers end up buying all of their products. When they realize that some of these professions require an artform, they end up calling the professional to repair a blown job.
This applies in the art and profession of plumbing.
Consumers can fix their faucets pretty well, but when it comes to other tasks that could affect the common water supply, the consumer thinks twice.
Licensed Plumbers will be a profession that will be around for a long time and so will the necessary certification to become one.

Now back to that surgury proceedure that you can perform with a nail-clipper.
Best Wishes

Easy?
Well maybe in new construction...
I am not a plumber but I have several freinds that are.
How about repair calls where they have to crawl in a cramped crawlspace ( who know what critters may be there too) to tackle a leaking pipe in 6" of mud. How about a leaking drain line in the 6" of mud. Sounds like a dirty nasty job and they get my respect for even wanting to do it.
Thanks plumbers!

We earn our money just as by what we KNOW as what we DO. I do alot of service jobs that customers could probably do--if they only knew what the problem was--what part needed to be replaced.
I go into enough new homes with a saw-z-all and cut out homeowner run drainage lines to know that there is way more to the job than cutting and gluing pipes together. It is a rare homeowner that has enough knowledge to run their DWV system correctly. Just because the materials have gotten easier to work with, doesn't mean that the average joe is going to have the knowledge to plumb their own homes.
Deb
The Pipewench

If you intend to do anything other than residential plumbing you had better know how to install cast iron drainage, and copper water lines because these are often the materials of choice, and if the building is rated as "fire proof" plastic often cannot even be used anywhere on site. Even undergroung outside the buildings in many cases.

Well maybe in new construction...

Eh never did new construction, have you? ;>

Daily change orders, whiney supers, hack callbacks, jeesh. I love the repair end much more.

Yes the Heat & Air end is the better trade. I started in plumbing, went to heat, and have arrived at air. Whoopee!

I am better received and get more respect responding to a heat/air call than plumbing. Who knows why? Maybe heat/air is seen to be more of a skilled trade than plumbing? (I know better and have serious respect for the older gooder plumber guys!) Maybe I'm just being modest, but I hesitate to consider HVAC a skilled trade. Power in / power out, amps, ohms, pressures? I mean, come on...I think HVAC is a tools trade. HVAC is a science, so if you've got the reference charts and such, its a real breeze to diagnose and fix. <shrug>.

Yes and No, The materials and some fixtures are getting lighter and less skills for some fixtures and piping are needed to fit and put them in place.

Now, on the other hand I have a 1915 plumbing code book with just 20 pages in it and a 2003 plumbing code with 464 pages in it.

Is it getting easy???

theres nothing thats easy about plumbing ....
ive been in ditches,crawlspaces,flooded basements,sewers backed up.... the whole thing is a mess but the best reward of all is when youve done a job well done,and collecting my paycheck!

Twelve years ago I started with a air co. that merged with a plumbing co. They merged to get into the poly repipes. I came on to set the standards for the repipes and to make sure that the codes were followed.
You see here as long as there is a master plumber (who was retired and not on the jobs) you can have anyone go out and do the work. I would have heated arguments with the owner(not master plumber) that we needed to hire better PLUMBERS not a lot of helpers.
I finley gave up arguing and collected a fat paycheck every week going around fixing the messups.
He finaly figgered out that quality not quantaty is what makes a good plumbing co.
The cust that we have today know that when they call us they get a plumber not someone that may have been picking tomatoes last crop season.
Yes some things have gotton easer.Hell I had to go north to learn how to do cast iron and cut and thread pipe. But my cust. call me not the handyman ( which they have a lot down here ) when there is a plumbing problem
Also I quit collage to become a full time service plumber. So this is a chossen profession not something I stumbled in like a lot of people these days.

I love my trade, skilled at my profession. Take that and what everyone else leaves every morning to go do in a day's work. A lot of DIY'S now, but the majority still can't understand the ten basic principles of plumbing.


I have no worries about not having work in my lifetime. It's actually the people who THINK they can plumb with a hacksaw and ruler that honestly put me on the map.

the first new house i put plumbing in was aroung 1970. i used 4" XH cast iron from the foundation thru the roof. the pipe was cut with chain cutters not chop saws. i packed and poured multiple joints on saw horses and i and a helper lifted them up into hangers. the lead pot was going all day long. the 2" venting was all done with threaded galvy pipe and cast fittings made up with 2 foot wrenches 'cause they had to pass a leak test. the tubs were all cast iron as were kitcken sinks. the cast iron sinks were all installed with stainless rims. roof flanges were copper with lead rings that had to be caulked to the pipe. there was no such thing as rubber roof flanges. sooooo!! plumbing may be more complicated and regulated nowadays but in my viewpoint it certainly IS easier...

Im a maintenance mechanic and have to fix all sorts of plumbing problems, however I rely on plumbers to do the technical stuff. This forum helped me do a professional job on the 10" PVC ducting I had to install. I do think back when I remodeled my house and my little brother took his sawzall to all my ABS and just started tearing it all out. He plumbed my entire house in about two weekends. He allowed me to cut pipes to length and sand the ends of the copper and to watch...kind of humbling but I have an understanding of what a plumber is now, and the price was right.

No. And this bulletin board is a testimony to that. Consider all those who have submitted questions to this board regarding projects and problems the consumer wanted to tackle.... only to find out that they were not properly trained to handle, repair, or fix the plumbing problem. Even after their best efforts, a licensed & certified plumber had to be called in to resolve/repair the problem.
Long live the plumbing bulletin boards !

I cut a lot of extra heavy cast iron pipe with a hammer and chisel before Wheeler designed the first snap cutter.

IF the heat or AC stop working, the customer can still get by, sometimes for days, but when the plumbing stops functioning, they want it fixed right now, and I get a very warm welcome when I arrive.

When most people think of plumbing they think water pipes and poo poo pipes. There is so much more, to name a few. 1)natural gas lines 2) medical gas lines 3) fuel oil lines 4) storm drains 5) chill water lines 6) steam lines 7) heating water lines 8) acid waste lines 9)dionized water lines 10) refridgerant lines 11)air lines 12) greasy waste lines and did I mention water pipes and poo poo pipes. Each system has it's own rules to follow. Each system has different ways and materials to pipe them up. This does not include the 1) fixtures 2) trap primers 3) heaters 4) boilers 5) pumps 6) water heaters 7) tanks 8) chillers 9) cooling towers 10) generators 11) air handler units 12) grease traps 13) hair traps 14)plaster traps 15) oil intercepters and more. Most of what is listed is usually unloaded, set in place and piped up by plumbers. Often some lay out is involved before hand. A "GOOD" plumber can sometimes be hard to find. In some areas things are getting easier. In other areas things are getting harder. When after you set the toilet, and you then have to plug it in, you know technology is constantly progressing. GOOD LUCK to ALL



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I vote no as the technolgy and desires of our customers has us installing things that the old timers (only the utmost respect intended) on this site never would have thought of in the 60's or earlier, or even believed possible.

The usual pipe and fitting situation (raw materials) however has got one heck of a lot LIGHTER though!

As to your oil burner comment. You are right there. Oil is a dying art form and those who know all the ins and outs are worth their weight in gold. Technology also has made great advances in that feild. Anyone who gets into it will do well, but they gotta want to smell like a burner every day all day.

WHERE WOULD ONE IN CHICAGO IL GO TO SHCOOL TO ENROLL IN A PLUMBING PROGRAM?AND GET A
LIC?

True plumbing materials are changing lighter pipes for drainage, plastic pex pipes for water. flexible gas piping. i have been plumbing for 13 years . and when new products come out we have to be certified to use that product. when i started out i had to go to school for 4 years . work under a licenced plumber for 7600 hrs about 4 years and then go take a state test. with out going to school or working with a master plumber there is no way you will pass the test. i work on big custom homes 8 - 16 baths at times 2-3 laundry rooms. any one can glue pipes together. but you have to know what size pipes you have to use . what type of venting you can and cant use. you have to know how to size water pipe, it would be a real bummer when some one buys a million dollar house or more . and there isnt enough water pressure or volume to run a shower . or when you flush a water closet and it sucks the trap on the sink and you have sewer gas in the home, due to improper venting . or when you dont have enough gas to run all the appliances because your none experienced person didnt size the gas piping right. you know it would be real bad if the none experienced person would tie the city water to the pressurized sewer line. i am always reading the code book like someone said they change all the time. hell i can sew up my finger maybe i will be a doctor. lol. plumbing is the only trade that you have to be licenced and by law a licenced plumber has to be present on the job. techincally a helper can only cut pipe the master plumber is to put it together but we all know the helper does it all under the carefull eye of the master

Thank you plumbfitter,good answer.A good plumber goes above and beyond the codes to make A job right. I've been in plumbing for 22 years and it isn't getting any easier. If a heating,ac man looses containment he's cooled or heated a place that doesn't need it,if a plumber looses containment he's damaged something, or created a hazard.



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You are really right that anyone can buy a hacksaw and buy pvc pipes, but not everyone can do the work of a plumber with high quality, beautifully and so that the pipes can work as long as possible. Anyone can do a job, but this does not mean that doing the job efficiently and successfully. In order to be a good plumber, you need to know a lot about sewers, pipes and how to carry out everything correctly so that there are no problems. Every plumber needs a lot of experience, but not every plumber has it. In my opinion, more often people, instead of doing the work of a plumber, call home services like [www.beastbayplumbing.com] , because many understand that they can only aggravate the situation. So in my opinion you are thinking too superficially about plumbers work.



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