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 relocating sink - vent,trap location?
Author: Anonymous User

I am moving my kitchen sink and it will end up being about 8 feet from the old vent. Also I will not be able to put a normal trap in and then run a horizontal drain pipe to the vent so i have considered two alternatives..
1. install a longer than normal vertical drain pipe out of the bottom of the sink which would go through the floor and i would have the trap below the floor (in the ceiling of the basement - which is open). i could then run a horizontal or slightly sloped drain to the vent. Is it ok to have an extended vertical drain before the trap?
2. install a trap below the sink as normal and then run the a downsloping drain through the floor and then to the vent. I am worried this setup would suck the water out of the trap since it would flow down a ways after the trap before reaching the vent.
Any advice?

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 Re: relocating sink - vent,trap location?
Author: Racer814

you could bring your drain up thru the floor inside the cabinet...back--right or left corner works well and use an air admittance valve under the sink to vent fixture..they are used often in remodeling. you can then cap off the old drain inlet and leave old vent in place...jus my 2cc's

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 Re: relocating sink - vent,trap location?
Author: Deb (ID)

Neither plan is a good idea (or to code).
Air admittance vents are not legal in some locals, so check with your local inspector. If not allowed by code in your area, it could affect the sale of your home at some future date.
If you are not able to use an AAV, you might consider calling in a plumber to assess the situation. There are often "creative" legal methods of getting venting out.
Kitchen and bath remodels really should be planned around what is possible to do with the plumbing, rather than trying to make it somehow work by methods not to code. A bad drainage system can really be a nightmare.
Deb
The Pipewench

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 Re: relocating sink - vent,trap location?
Author: Anonymous User

I was checking around on the internet for sink drainage info and found a set up using an S trap which would basically allow the drain to go down through the floor after the trap. here it is... [www.hammerzone.com]

does that look ok? to code?
would water stay in the trap?

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 Re: relocating sink - vent,trap location?
Author: Deb (ID)

No
No
Maybe

S-traps are not to code anywhere.

Deb
The Pipewench

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 Re: relocating sink - vent,trap location?
Author: hj

"S" traps have not been legal for at least 60 years, and possibly a lot before that.

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 Re: relocating sink - vent,trap location?
Author: Racer814

What locale doesnt allow air admittance valves?...its an accepted method of venting that while not a good idea to overuse...are very effective on a single fixture where running a standard vent isnt feasible...I've plumbed so many island sinks with them I cant count them...and they DO work!!

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 Re: relocating sink - vent,trap location?
Author: Deb (ID)

UPC code does not allow the use of air admittance valves anywhere for any reason.
Deb
The Pipewench

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 Re: relocating sink - vent,trap location?
Author: Racer814

Yeah..but the upc code is behind the times...as lately as 2001 they would not even allow wet venting per se..read this quote from Julious Ballanco from PM magazine..."Some of the more interesting changes are proposed for the venting system. Many of the venting methods allowed by OTHER plumbing codes are proposed for inclusion. This would include WET VENTING, CIRCUIT VENTING and WASTE STACK VENTING. While the upc claims to allow wet venting, the configuration is for a vertical piping arrangement. The classic horizontal wet venting is not currently acceptable in the upc Of course this should the year AIR ADMITTANCE valves are accepted in the upc. During the previous code change process, AIR ADMITTANCE valves were rejected with the reason being "We just dont like them" A technical reason for not accepting them will be hard to come up with since the industry has surpassed every test raised" I guess it would depend on your locale as to whether they could be used or not. In NC they have been approved for many years. I only install them in circumstances like a remodel where the homeowner does want to incur the extra cost of replacing walls or ceilings so I can tie into a vent stack...under those circumstances they work very well....IMO the upc needs to move into the new century. Hopefully they have adressed these shortcomings but it is beyond me why they dont allow auto vents........and I'm sorry if I sound argumentative, I dont mean to...I'm just bored!...have a good day/racer

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 Re: relocating sink - vent,trap location?
Author: Deb (ID)

UPC has no problem with wet venting--I should know, I am the wet vent queen. If I can wet vent it, I generally do. The state I live in also allows horizontal wet venting if it originated in the vertical.
They are a stickler on the AAVs however. I plumb alot of log homes and always run into situations where an AAV would be way easier to use, but alas....
Deb
The Pipewench

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 Re: relocating sink - vent,trap location?
Author: Plbg.com Staff

Racer814 wrote:

"....but it is beyond me why they dont allow auto vents..."

It really is pretty simple:

Because all auto vents are mechanical!

That means they WILL fail.

We just don't know WHEN they will fail and some brands last longer than other brands but, by nature, ALL auto vents WILL fail.

--------------

We, the staff at Plbg.com prefer to avoid giving plumbing advice. This is a note explaining the thinking of "why they don't allow auto vents."

In our minds it makes perfect sense to discourage them and to wncourage a non mechanical vent whenever possible.

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 Re: relocating sink - vent,trap location?
Author: hj

Let's look at a specific instance, a very common one by the way, where an AAV would not work as good as a regular piped vent. If a septic system is partially backed up due to a flooded field, (but the water stays at a given level because that is the water table/flood level of the septic field), because of a lot of rain, a sink with a standard vent will work because the air between the flooded main line and the sink will escape up the vent. If there is an AAV, that air will be trapped by the one way action of the AAV and the sink will be effectively double trapped and not drain until the AAV is unscrewed and the pipe is opened to the atmosphere. If the entire building were vented with AAV's nothing would drain, whereas everything would function with standard vents, which is why Studor recommends that at least one vent, preferably the farthest one upstream which would have a tendency to be the last to flood, so that the trapped air in the system has at least one place to evacuate.

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 Re: relocating sink - vent,trap location?
Author: Racer814

Yes..exactly..you must use them judiciously...all I'm saying is that they are a viable alternative to venting single sink fixtures in circumstances where a regular vent isnt feasible..as far as them failing..uh..yeah..everything fails eventually..studor vents rarely fail..I probably use less AAV's than the rest of the plumbers in my locale...I will go to great lengths to avoid them, but sometimes they are the best solution..and they work great..Poly/Pex tubing wasnt accepted at first..look at it now..I still dont like it and prefer L copper..does that mean pex is junk..no..the plumbing industry is not going to remain stagnant..change is inevitable, some places are just slower to accept it......jus my 2cc's..Racer

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 Re: relocating sink - vent,trap location?
Author: Anonymous User

yes-in Philadelphia "s" traps are code.unbelievable-huh?

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